On June 19, 2015, I accepted the invitation from the DPA Founder, Director Bonnie Bright + Board of Directors to participated in panel discussions concerning the questions posed to our virtual community regarding the future directions of the word, concept, meaning of DEPTH.  Psychology is paired with depth in this community; however, I truly believe the word “depth” ought to stand-alone.

 I joined the panel discussions and my contribution arose from the image of Sir Thomas More’s 1516 fictional Image of the Island of Utopia as published in his book that I found [found me].

Few members posted in Part 1 that began with the posting of Thomas More’s image of Utopia now contained within the DPA Panel Discussion Posts.

At the onset, I believed my initial reason for delving more into my depths, utilizing More’s image and narrative political fiction, was to get closer to the timeframe, socio-political underpinnings affecting the lives of 1600c peasants to help me understand the roots, hence seeds to capture the gist of my 19c great grandparents lives in pre-WW1 Europe.   The Healing of My Family Tree work was imprinted at birth, however, I did not know nor understand this idea until 1983 and my first rude awakening – my sister, Diane’s death [she age 42; me age 35}.  I was so devastated for she was so lovely a sister and kindred spirit that all I could do was ask God for help.  The question arose, “What planet have I been on” for that was the first time in my life I had a sense and felt alone in a gathering of friends, aware I was beside and outside of myself in pure agony and despair.

From 1983 to 2014, I searched and found many excellent teachers with ideas that supported and encouraged me to delve deeper into the mysteries of my NDE’s.  I attended to an array of professional healers peeling back the layers, working through the levels of accumulated and thwarted trauma responses contained in altered states and dimensions of my being to arrive in this virtual depth place/space [DPA community] for connecting with like-minded people is absolutely necessary for procedural memory is deeply embedded, unconscious and energetic material held in containers and human support necessary for on-going silver lining core healing work.

There are 4 projects I am drawn to, be my offerings to post and share:

1) Depth Levels of Conversation + Moral Ethics

2) Themes of Grief [TOG]

3) Women Mystics

4) Utopia

Today, I close PART 1 – THOMAS MORE’S UTOPIA and open PART 2 with the closing comment from Aleksandar whom I thank and am grateful for, as I do believe we have arrived in depth level 4 of conversations.  Peace + Love Linda


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Replies to This Discussion

Aleksandar Malecic replied to your discussion "UTOPIA by Thomas More [1478 - 1535]: A Narrative Political Fiction" in "What is Depth Psychology?" DISCUSSION GROUP on Depth Psychology Alliance

There are many people doing all kinds of stuff and publishing books and articles. It's very difficult to tell the difference between a new insight and distraction (and that's what this comment is about - about many potential hints and insights, but also distractions). In that sense, one of presentations on that ISSS Conference mentioned in my previous comment will be about traditional Chinese medicine and Anthropocene. There will be some other presentations that on the first sight look like pseudoscience, although it doesn't mean that it necessarily is the case. Some participants and their colleagues are serious scientists and engineers working with systems. There is also a vision by INCOSE, another organization friendly to ISSS, with the vision (the year 2025) of more efficient and robust (both stable and flexible - the jury is still out whether it makes sense; it doesn't mean that it can or will happen) systems engineering. David Rousseau (mentioned in my previous comments) will discuss about his manifesto on transcidiplinarity and an assumption of the General System(s) Theory, the ultimate pattern that seems to exist (feedback, synergy, emergence in different systems). There were many attempts to do that and they are interesting and useful for inner work and meditation, even for the outside realm, but seemingly fail to be the ultimate one. A useful pattern doesn't have to be the ultimate, some of them can be good enough for interaction between people, technologies, engineering, and ideas exactly because they aren't the most fundamental one (whatever that is).

My candidate (too deranged for its own good) for the ultimate pattern and the background story is here: . Here is the chapter (the last one) written by me with the same central idea (but not the only) from the table. It was inspired by Jung and Pauli's work on synchronicity, meaning that my entry in that "research" was from a strange side. As I had read John Kinneman's (the new president of ISSS) paper on Robert Rosen (a previous president of ISSS; anticipation; the reason why I was reading that Kinneman's paper) and Aristotle's four causes, I decided to include Aristotle in the table. After that, a DPA member Kent Palmer recommended to me Terrence Deacon's book Incomplete Nature ( ). Alicia Juarrero's both book and article Dynamics in Action (available online for free; the same title but the content isn't identical) is very similar to Deacon's work, so much that she has accused him for plagiarism. That's a shame because Deacon's work seems to be potentially bigger for some future people with better understanding. In that sense, even if my Jung-Deacon-Aristotle-Rosen-... connection is wrong, it has nothing to do with brilliance and future recognition of each individual.

To quote Linda: "for us, we may die without knowing the personal side of the man and the gist of your knowledge base and promise for future contributions to help stabilize societies across the globe" - That's a very serious potential distraction. There is a difference between being weird and relevant. Both of those texts I've written are outcomes of very disjointed (to the point that sometimes I can't believe what I've written) playing with imagination.

It's a huge topic with all kinds of potential (god or bad) directions.

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Good afternoon Aleksandar.  Concerning your first paragraph about “Who’s doing what” that is irrelevant to me for all I am trying to be, do in here is be real and engage in discourse.  General, Open, Transformative, Transactional, Everything, etc. – the tweaking of the words contained within the constructs of theorems remain never ending and we “academics, scientists” create, coin new words to fit our times into works of intelligent information for service or personal gain. 

How about the variant utopian word - nowhere?  Does anyone out there know if nowhere is included in the constructs of Black Hole Theory which I have not read, remain familiar except for my experience of being in the void with my current inkling there is a deeply embedded connection with my one dark NDE in comparison to the light NDE’s.

I personally am not out to find any ‘ultimate or absolute’ in anything human related and as far as transdisciplinary; professionals have been in active trans practice, collaborating across the disciplines for decades now, especially in critical and oncology care settings where life is one the line and shock, trauma, toxins, degeneration and mutations are the norm, impending death is the enemy being fought against and there are lots of clinical research trials going on in a variety of projects that are transdisciplinary in nature as many sub-specialities join together and co-author within the vast field of medicine and science consortiums.

Are you inferring that “alchemy” is the ultimate pattern and you suspect this pattern is deranged?  Just as folk’s way back when started pulling themselves out of under the controls of “The Dark Ages,” us post-modern folks will need to pull ourselves out from under the control of “The Machine Ages.” 

I read your workshop, article on “Will” and immediately notice the dropping of the word “Free.”  For me, this implies a severance from a spiritual, freely given and supernatural gift from the creator, God Almighty. Does this mean, you dismiss the current science that has identified the God particle and the spiritual molecule?  Do the discoveries of this particle and molecule help unite the hard and soft sciences?  Will spiritual dimensions and realms of experience finally be acknowledged by the current trend of the hard sciences concentrated interests back into anomalous/phenomenal experiences?  This too shall remain a never-ending story – as love is.

Concerning your blending’s, I am reading, try to get [reduce these complex ideas to simple root form in the hopes at arriving at –a-bit of a gist of each of these ideas you blend – alchemical zing, so I do need more time to digest.  However, concerning your “Will” schema, the first question that comes to my mind is why 4 and not 5 tables to be more in keeping with the quintessence – a 15c fifth and highest element in ancient and medieval philosophy purported to permeate all nature and is the substance composing the celestial bodies or the purest and most concentrated form.  Can you help me out on the quintile [1928]?  Does this mean imply that any of the 4 values that divide the items of a frequency distribution into 5 classes?  Excuse my scientific experimental engineering ignorance here, but is that why you have a 4x4 table – you are looking for the 5th?  What about the 6th sense?  Is it not acknowledged as an element?

Time is the only reliable measures…including time zero…an energetic standstill point of reference similar to the concept of being in the eye of the storm.

Concerning your table, I am trying to figure out where “feelings” and “spirit” are located?   Can you comment here for these 2 manifestations of nature now matter most to me, above mind [thought forms/ideas] and body [physical/anatomical/physiological] forms.  The supernatural, the spiritual, the wave forms, the frequencies, the inanimate aspect/dimensions [the human energy field, body forms] noted in testaments, named  “resilience’ of the human spirit or celestial body/beings – immeasurable across the sands of time – unfathomable without that experiential –empirical moment, lesson, knowledge, truth.

My comments to you are not meant to be a distraction, nor about anyone being weird or discussing that which may or may not be relevant.  Again, I repeat, I am simply being true to my lifelong journey to be real, myself and sharing from my own personal and professional experiences in discourse with you knowing many in our DPA community are reading our posts, and a few are beginning to air/share their comments too.  And this makes for good conversation.  You call it “playing with your imagination” and by doing so, does this kind of “play with words” somehow remove a person from any ownership/responsibility for word choices and associations blended together into the formation one’s own…new ground of created thought forms that serve personally, professionally, or both? 

Obviously, we are at different stations in our personal and professional lives.  When I recall my thesis and dissertation into fellowship formal learning processes; I’m glad they are behind me and that I lived long enough to retire from the disciplines and simply be free to engage in discourse, such as my participation within this virtual, DPA place/space at this time.  It is nice after such a long and arduous journey to simply stop, smell the roses and enjoy my life knowing I earned my moral compass that shall, without a doubt in my mind, heart and soul guide the remainder of my days on planet earth.  It is clear to me that it is the relational experiences where lovingkindness abounds that has infused and refined my battle scars transforming my wounds with silver linings inset as a golden oldie.  Sure did take me a long time – the whole stretch of my lifespan to learn that which I need to know and I will remain humbled and grateful to final breath!  To overcome primitive fears through NDE’s remains my gift of innocence and an unbelievable story, but it is my own and I’m sticking with it.   

Yes, huge topics…with all kinds of spectrum potentials - to focus on dichotomy extremes – either/or - polar opposite ends… black/white, good/bad…so much more…and into that grey [neutral] matter, positions, posture or zone.  A strange membranous place and landscape for me to rest in since my Master’s program when our professor who asked that uncoils, infamous question all graduate student eventually face regarding the nature of a human being – are we born good, evil or neutral?  I never heard nor had any idea what a neutral person was or might even look like.   Some more food for thought regarding the search for utopian ideals.  Peace + Love Linda

It’s lame to make it so personal, as if I approve that we dissect that table in the discussion under the title Utopia Part 2. There is more text and something that isn’t written there but might have been. In that sense, there is a third text submitted and rejected by I journal, but for now I’ll keep it in that unfinished form.


Terrence Deacon, regardless of my treatment of his ideas (although I don’t know how it happened that I treated them (my “context” instead of Deacon’s “constraints”) even when I was unaware of him), looks like someone potentially important. Those four elements were never meant to be alchemical, according to Deacon and Juarrero. In that sense, it has nothing to do with the 6th sense, quintessence (I guess the table of four elements is some kind of quintessence), 32 teeth, or whatever. It’s just a presumable minimal number of causes needed for a complex system to emerge (with a simplified explanation of each): causes and effects (efficient), matter (material), context/concept (formal), and purpose (final). That context, concept, or formal cause depends on constraints and they can be (depending on the system) a shape of a box, joints, or (according to me) emotion/feeling/mood/ideology (the difference irrelevant here; something that makes me more or less likely to laugh or cry). Also, time is actually the most problematic rather than the most certain and measurable in both quantum and relativistic physics (not classical physics; both of these are kind of included in the table). The long story short, no one (of those who have published something similar) has ever told me that the table is wrong (maybe in some cases it was perceived so wrong that I didn’t receive any response) regardless of one’s beliefs, although the problem is that each profession is focused on its part of the table.


Responsibility – It also includes not rambling too much in an awkward context (see the first paragraph). Just as I’m leaving this specific discussion for good right now.


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