Good morning All - 

Just after we competed the Jung, Alchemy + The Tree of Life, I found this image [it found me] and I was going to submit it into our Post-Webinar discussions there, however, upon attending the 2nd Panel Discussion and first read of this story, and if we consider, I have had a lack of interest in political and religious arguments [not my area of passion]; I am trying to find areas where I may be able to contribute to the board panel discussions in a meaningful way - now.  

Therefore, I will go into the body of this story to see if I can capture the gist of this man's "political narrative fiction" that streams across the sands of time and check out the influence of his work and what happened to him as a result of this work.

Today in conversing with Eva, I thought [can be deceptive], she had said to us that we would start to see the "tree everywhere." and correctly posed that it is the "stone" we begin to see everywhere.  Eva commented that this Utopia image comes from the same time-frame as the Tree-of-life image.

I will get distracted into the "stones" realm that have manifested in my life, but will add that the Philosopher's Stone was unknown to me [never heard those words expressed together before until I took TRB course].  Perhaps men and women gaze upon and search for different stones.

Must leave stones behind for now and focus my attention to the details contained in this piece of work and my task at hand for it may be helpful within this group.

If you want to read this story it's on: http://www.Utopia (story) - Wikipedia

True to form, a song comes to heart/mind: "Barnacle Bill the Sailor."

Happy Father's Day to all the Dad's out there.  My Dad sang this song to me in my tender years!  Warm, fuzzy memories. It's summer solstice and Charleston is having a "love fest" for healing of grief today!  Peace + Love Linda

 

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BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

A frame narrative is a fictional “story within a story” that depicts fictional island society; its religious, social and political customs and suggests that Utopia, a perfected society is ultimately unreachable.  Frame stories are preserved on the ancient Egyptian Papyrus Westcar.  Early examples are written examples of first millennium BCE ancient India, Sanskrit epics Mahabharata, Ramayana, Vishnu Sarma's Panchatantra, Syntipas's The Seven Wise Masters, and the fable collections Hitopadesha and Vikram and The Vampire were written.[1] This form gradually spread west through the centuries and became popular, giving rise to such classic frame tale collections as the One Thousand and One Nights (Arabian Nights), The Decameron, and Canterbury Tales.

"Utopia" is derived from the Greek words ou (οὐ), "not", and topos (τόπος), "place", with the suffix -iā (-ία) that is typical of toponyms; hence Outopía (Οὐτοπία; Latinized as Utopia, with stress on the second syllable), meaning “no-place-land".  In early modern English, Utopia was spelled "Utopie", which is today rendered Utopy in some editions.

In English, Utopia is pronounced exactly as Eutopia (the latter word, in Greek Εὐτοπία [Eutopiā], meaning “good place,” contains the prefix εὐ- [eu-], "good", with which the οὐ of Utopia has come to be confused in the French and English pronunciation).[1] This is something that More himself addresses in an addendum to his book Wherfore not Utopie, but rather rightely my name is Eutopie, a place of felicitie.[2]

Next insertion:  The Gist of First Book:

JUNE 22, 2015 – MORE on “MORE’S”

An interesting phenomena happened while working on my next submission re: the image/gist - Book 1 of the political frame story - Utopia by Thomas More.  I noticed resistance to proceed, so I stopped…and ended up in a Google search to check out what was it about the name “More” that halted me.  These is what I found [found me]:

1) Sir Thomas More (/ˈmɔr/; 7 February 1478 – 6 July 1535), venerated by Catholics as Saint Thomas More,[1][2] was an English lawyer, social philosopher, author, statesman and noted Renaissance humanist. He was also a councillor to Henry VIII, and Lord Chancellor from October 1529 to 16 May 1532.[3] More opposed the Protestant Reformation, in particular the theology of Martin Luther and William Tyndale. He also wrote Utopia, published in 1516, about the political system of an ideal and imaginary island nation. More opposed the King's separation from the Catholic Church, refusing to accept him as Supreme Head of the Church of England, and what he saw as Henry's bigamous marriage to Anne Boleyn. Tried for treason for his refusal to condone this, More was convicted and beheaded.

2) Thomas Moore (28 May 1779 – 25 February 1852) was an Irish poet, singer, songwriter, and entertainer, now best remembered for the lyrics of "The Minstrel Boy" and "The Last Rose of Summer". He was responsible, with John Murray, for burning Lord Byron's memoirs after his death. In his lifetime he was often referred to as Anacreon Moore.

3) Thomas Moore (born October 8, 1940 in Detroit, Michigan) is an American psychotherapist, former monk, and writer of popular spiritual books, including the New York Times bestseller Care of the Soul (1992). [1] He writes and lectures in the fields of archetypal psychology, mythology, and imagination. [2] His work is influenced by the writings of Carl Jung and James Hillman.

Right now it seems meaningless [out of context here] for me to spend anymore time on the first “More” – you can all read “Utopia” if so inclined, and simply read the wikipedia introductions, contributions of the other two “Moore’s,” me being familiar with the last writer having read his book, “Care of the Soul.”

Have a great day.  Peace + Love Linda

"out of context here" - Is it?

Good morning Aleksandar - that depends upon one's perspective concerning the type of conversation we want to have in this space.  I found relevant key points in the Utopia story that appeared relevant to our topic about "definitions" but his were of "cultural/societal formation" nature from the mind-set [real or imagined] of the [his] earlier mentioned [3 prior journeys],  sea fairing adventures searching for land - an island [border control].  All noteworthy undertakings in his time and I was struck by the Utopia Image drawn with descriptors from during his time: the island formation, separation from the mainland, political structure state/populous formation/voting], the monarchy underpinnings, the old ships and the cathedrals [churches] scattered around the island.

As the frame story goes, Thomas More's writings [real/imagined - 5 years with the indigenous people] is relevant to the current newsworthy stories in our times about the "colonization" and disruption of native people from all around the globe [North American Native people [USA + Canada], interment camps, treatment of Chinese immigrants in Canada [outbreak of WW2 and at most unrest today - the plight of the African American peoples [slavery of old; crime profiling, disproportionate arrests, treatment during and violence to death [killing] of lone wolf [on the edge], unduly influenced, thought-reformed, unfortunate souls - messengers of the injustices around the globe.

He was executed for not aligning himself with the King...totalitarianism, annihilation...still problems in our time...however, there are some differences and glimmers of hope...two steps forward, one step backward and just perhaps...one day...we will all get along, scattered in the 4 corners/directions of the continents we inhabit, but better at harmonious trade and support of other/different customs.

This work of his did influence future writers [i.e. Voltaire, an Elliot??], did result in a practical application of a Utopian society, as recorded in Mexican history as stated in the "Interpretation" section of this wikipedia site on the work: Uptoia.

Interesting to read a work from early 1516 and contrast beside our time 2015 - timely and I typically do not get involved in religious/political intense debates for I do not have the knowledge base to do so.  Simply coming from my now grandmother, golden oldie perspective and what I have experienced personally and socially concerning the social experiments and "death of the family systems [tribes]" old/current streams across the sands of time in the rivers of life...unfortunately, we do repeat ourselves...nothing new under the sun?  I see glimpses, hope for renewal...

Your thoughts on your question "Is it?....Peace + Love Linda

 

That "wrong" Thomas is synonymous to utopia. As Heidegger was mentioned during the latest webinar, I mentioned his Nazi membership and Craig Chalquist replied with the title of his paper on Heidegger and Ragnarok: http://www.depthpsychologyalliance.com/group/what-is-depth-psycholo...

Yesterday I wrote here http://www.depthpsychologyalliance.com/forum/topics/what-is-depth-p... about Miguel Serrano, an "Esoteric Hitlerist" from Chile who called Jung and Hesse (he even lived in Hesse's house after he had died and Jung has written an introduction to his novel) his friends. He was more their groupie (he met them when they were around 75) than a friend (Jung partially "betrayed" his cause as an anti-Nazi and Hesse as a pacifist, but he still admired them). The same myth of Ragnarok mentioned in Chalquist's paper is also in Serrano's book "Adolf Hitler: The Ultimate Avatar". He even compares Jung to a "good Nazi" Heidegger. He was an adventurer just like Thomas More and he organized an expedition from Chile to Antarctica after he had heard that Hitler might have been alive and moved to Antarctica.

One of the editors of the book in which my chapter will be published has a blog "Utopia or Dystopia": http://utopiaordystopia.com/

'Nothing ever happens by chance,' he answered. 'Here, only the right guests meet. This is the Hermetic Circle....' http://www.daimon.ch/3856305580_1E.htm

Good afternoon Aleksandar - thanks for bringing what you know forward - very revealing.  There is that sacred saying that whatever happens in the dark will be brought to light.  It is quite astonishing that we have not got a book from across the millenniums with "Past Millennium Reviews" like Lexicons not just for one persons work, but the whole field...truths revealed...noting errors in thinking [deception, undue influence, etc.] in which the new millenniums believe is "not in humanities best interest, do no harm."

Who knows in a hundred years after I'm dead and gone and if a "Pink Book" would be written about my experience, working with post-trauma personal/professional/business woman role/function "healing" journeys - what the critics would say?  What colour would your book be if you had to pick a colour.  I was going to say this may be a girl thing, but no, Jung picked red.  

I am unfamiliar with the total meaning of the term "hermetic" [believe it or not] so forgive my not knowing this implications regarding a "hermetic" circle - is that related to god, Hermes thought?  In my world of experience and work that surrounds care for shock, post-trauma survivors [Psychotraumatology] - with a wide spectrum of interests in many fields related to the matrix: psycho-neuro-immunological matrices, proposed psychological neuro-anatomy [pre-natal on...., wave and thought phenomena, forms and reform theories, thalantopics and the spectrum of trauma impact [surreal, real or imagined] - bereavement - homestatsis - healing vortices and the absolutely unlimited journey, sojourns one can traverse..is mind-blowing, so, our terms [angles, cuts, views, vision] operate are multivariate and multilinear [scooped and scoped]...and the ??? breadth and depth of it all, the vast numbers of scholars, required, the phenomenal about of funds, research required in the hard and soft sciences in the midst of high-speed technology, hence advances...my oh my...good thing we hone in on what we are passionate about for our tongues speak different world of work - words [some common ground features], however, I do believe there is a solid foundation of ancient truths...we can all agree to and hold onto in the constant flux and change of it all...

That is good your friend has a blog on "Utopia" and I hope he would join us here with his knowledge, findings, truths...the good news today and from my sense of it all..we have a good melting pot going...and some of us have been into the various levels of conversation with each other since 2012...TRB...and it is good our individual voices can be expressed in print, sometimes voice, video...my parent would have love it - opening things up.

Yes, I do pay attention to your links [limited in time to read them all] and love that you are sharing some details about particular people I do not know their views, pointing out mostly the negatives...perhaps Jung was a good "German" - Aryan citizen born in a cataclysmic time [so I am not going to sit in any kind of judgment... for my ancestors fled too and I am not a judge in any way, shape or form].

We are bringing up important features..have this space/place for discourse...established a base of respect for each others shared and divergent views/interests, so no matter the posts are interesting and revealing...

All we have to do now is keep the "focus" on the topic matter at hand with "more voices" chiming and work hard on sharing in terms all can grasp...let us not go so far and deep into the dense forest [box], that we miss the opportunity...the clearing...the pasture where we can all graze...be fed with each other's here-and-now truths and OMG [oh my goodness or oh my God/god] whatever your supremacy lies...and who know...maybe if we are really fortunate [we are well fed in here], we might catch a glimpse, share the goodness that's inside.

I liked a couple thing More scripted back then, equality + euthanasia stances.  We seem to be plagued, as he noted, with land, rulers, ownership and authority figure chronic  ???????  what's a succinct word for fits that spot? 

I just came in from gardening, grass cutting, so I'm high on nature's smells right now...have a good day.                   Peace + Love Linda

In the context of that conversation:

Hermetic – obscure, esoteric, mysterious

Hermetic circle – see hermetic, people in the know

Also, hermeticism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism

Here are a few things a new mythology is (can be) made of: http://www.depthpsychologyalliance.com/group/new-global-mythology/f...

From another author from Chile, totally unrelated to Miguel Serrano (whose (Serrano’s) name means something like God like Mountain) but at least as interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agw27HhB4H4 – Holly Mountain – Zoom back camera

June 24, 2015 – HERMETICISM/ESOTERICISM:                                                                               Hi Aleksandar – interesting, my attention to your response your words “people in the know” and I asked myself – who are these people and what do they know?  Amd specifically, Aleksandar provided singular words that landed me back to Hermes and my uninformed, lack of interest, not knowing much about the topics of mythology, alchemy or Hermes, so I looked a few things up on Google to try to tie this into our panel discussion and the words shared in the last discussion group, that we needed to go back to the origins to find solutions.

Esotericism [1655] is a doctrine with Latin//Greek roots to describe an “in/within” quality, state or understanding of the “specially” initiated alone and related to knowledge restricted to a small group.  Hermetic [1605] and hermeticism [1897] relates to a system of ideas, based on doctrine, teachings of Hermes Trismegitus:

Hermes Trismegistus may be a representation of the syncretic combination of the Greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth. [1] In Hellenistic Egypt, the Greeks recognized the congruence of their god Hermes with Thoth. [2] Subsequently the two gods were worshipped as one in what had been the Temple of Thoth in Khemnu, which the Greeks called Hermopolis. [3]

Both Thoth and Hermes were gods of writing and of magic in their respective cultures. Thus, the Greek god of interpretive communication was combined with the Egyptian god of wisdom as a patron of astrology and alchemy. In addition, both gods were psychopomps, guiding souls to the afterlife:

Artist: Unknown

Date: 1480s - Floor inlay in the Cathedral of Siena Russian: Hermes Mercurius Trismegistus, contemporary of Moses, on the left pages of the book.

Text Bottom: Take the letters and the laws of the Egyptians, right on the stove, which kept a sphinx // God, the creator of all things, with God himself created the visible and created the first and only person who was glad, and very loved his own son, who is called the Holy Word.

English: summary of this image by? Berkleeb entered October 2014 - Details of the work of stone masters of Hermes Trismegistus, floor inlaid in the Cathedral of Siena

In the discussion, there was mention for us to go back and look at origins to help us “find a new way of depth.” 

This is my contribution bringing forth a few snippets of “Hermes” origins which I will also post in the Jung, Alchemy + Tree of Life Post-Group.

Today, the Siena Cathedral (Italian: Duomo di Siena) is an obscure, shrouded in legend, pope palace, a 9c synod medieval church in Siena, Italy, dedicated from its earliest days as a Roman Catholic Marian church, and now dedicated to Santa Maria Assunta (Holy Mary, Our Lady of the Assumption).

Then, I opened your link to your page about creating a new myth [I have no interest in base myths, never mind creating a new one], but went to the beginning of your post and found, as you stated there, “a beautiful poem…written by a 27 year old, and this poem does directly address the panel discussion, so I brought it forward:

http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2013/08/14/probably-possible-a-simpl

Have a great evening.  Peace + Love Linda

Linda, there is a big difference when you say "I have no interest" or when that creature we are accustomed to see as a typical politician says that. Perhaps those "people in the know" first and foremost know that reality is a slippery terrain, that there are many possible angles to see a situation or an object, and that spirituality (and imagination and symbols) is a natural phenomenon. We are at the same time spiritual beings and hairless apes. This comment is incomplete because I can't share my facial expressions and what's going on in my hand as I'm writing it. I hate this comment, it just doesn't capture my doubt and uncertainty as I'm throwing sentences one after another.

Still, I am for instance certain (speaking of angles) that those who are afraid of democracy and are planning these days to attack Russia deserve more disgust from my side than someone who was looking for Hitler levitating over Antarctica. They are more insane (the same folks who have defeated Nazism and call themselves Christians), but still disturbingly real. In a racist society police shoots an unarmed Negro. On the other hand, in a politically correct society police shoots an unarmed African American.

June 25, 2015 POLITICS:

Good morning Aleksandar and right off the bat, I could not help but pick up on your animalizing of politicians.  And in this moment, I am glad I am not a politician, simply a lover of life.  Our poor beasts of burdens, so little regard with so much judgement in our struggling, ongoing global concerns + conflicts.

It is good to hear you acknowledge the positive that informed persons are aware of the complexities and are endeavouring to work with vast phenomena.

You bring forward that we are both spiritual [etheric] with animal – and you choose the ape inferring we are the same as an ape, except we have no hair.  And this is where our inroads intersect allowing you to pursue that path while I proceed on mine.

In the mammalian kingdom, personally right now I am unable to contrast myself with apes that live in the jungle and can more identify with my reality of living in the wilderness and the animal here are wild horses.

Twenty-seven years has lapsed since I left that satellite, bed-room community, wife beating capital we moved into in Canada that was such a profound, rude awakening for me that I have spent all my time since, away from there, serving survivors of trauma and abuse.

And I can’t help but focus [because you shared] on the word you used – “hate" followed by descriptors of scepticism.  And I feel for you in that place that is so stone cold hard as a rock on one's heart and soul.

And then, you go somewhere confusing for you infer people who fear democracy are planning on waging war and I see the conflicting areas in the world where there are battles going on right now – coming from a totally different perspective.  Isn’t that interesting.  And from my perspective there is no disgust but a focus on dialogue towards amicable cohabitation.

Further you bring in Hitler “levitating” over Antarctica in the same breath and generalized statement of the "insane" Christians who defeated the Nazi’s.  And I am very sad in this moment for you...this sounds like a rock in a hard place to live.

And then, you end with racism – again generalzied ethnic slurs/prejudice killings into and government/police sanctioned killings where I see attempts being made towards change of all brutal, senseless killings from any arena.

OMG – your reality sounds disturbingly real to me this morning…and I dare ask, do you have any short or long-term solutions for all the above current dilemma your conflicting mind-sets face?  Do you have an exit strategy for yourself towards making some semblance of cognitive peace?

Peace + Love Linda

Is it my or our reality? That disturbing thing? Is that the only viable option, to chase butterflies and smell flowers as the biggest military forces are preparing to start shooting at each other over my head? War was my childhood, it has destroyed my house and the village where my mother spent her childhood. So, no what? North America will set the world on fire and smell flowers?

Hi Aleksandar -

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